ANNOUNCE: Lisp Without Parentheses Project (Lispin) Site Open

The Lispin project web site has been launched.

The project's goal is to provide Lisp and Scheme languages with an
indented syntax similar to SRFI 49 and
other poposals. e.g.

define (fac x)
if (= x 0) 1
* x
fac (- x 1

The site at http://www.lispin.org/ provides a wiki for collaboration
and on-line indentation pre-processor. The site itself is implemented
in an indented Lisp.

Regards,
Bill Birch

"Bill Birch" <birchb@tpg.com.au> writes:

> define (fac x)
> if (= x 0) 1
> * x
> fac (- x 1

Ouch, those naked Sexps look so poor and vulnerable!
Especially the last one ;-)
--
(espen)

"Bill Birch" <birchb@tpg.com.au> writes:

> define (fac x)
> if (= x 0) 1
> * x
> fac (- x 1

Who are you? Some kind of comedian?

On 27 Nov 2006 04:44:45 -0800, "Bill Birch" <birchb@tpg.com.au> tried to confuse
everyone with this message:

>The Lispin project web site has been launched.

I love how it says "Lisp without parentheses" yet the example contains several
of these damned things Nice post, btw: I laughed after just reading the
title.

--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|

Timofei Shatrov wrote:

> I love how it says "Lisp without parentheses" yet the example contains several
> of these damned things Nice post, btw: I laughed after just reading the
> title.

And even the title of the posting has 2 parantheses.

--
Frank Buss, fb@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de

Bill Atkins wrote:
> "Bill Birch" <birchb@tpg.com.au> writes:
>
>
>> define (fac x)
>> if (= x 0) 1
>> * x
>> fac (- x 1
>
>
> Who are you? Some kind of comedian?

A parenthesis, a bracket, and a brace walk into a bar...

kt

--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/

"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon

(message (Hello 'Bill)
(you :wrote n '(27 Nov 2006 04:44:45 -0800))
(

BB> The project's goal is to provide Lisp and Scheme languages with an
BB> indented syntax similar to SRFI 49 and
BB> other poposals. e.g.

as i understand, the goal is to improve readability.
without the editor support, this things have very few sense.

but if you'll implement this in the editor, ti won't be a syntax -- but
merely a form of visualization. the editor will be able to remove
parentheses during process of visualization, and will bring them back when
it will render file for compiler.

thus, if you really want to do something, try to implement next-generation
code editor -- that will not be a text editor with some processing attached,
but yet special thing, that will understand the semantics of code you're
editing, and will visualize it in proper way, and will allow you to edit it
in proper way -- thus, it would be impossible to have malformed indentation.
i don't think it's possible to create such editor on old proportional-text
base, so you'd better make full graphical display, and visualize code as
trees (so one can visually see connections between lists, you can check how
folding is done in modern editors), and display some placeholders -- so if
guy enters "if", it should create a structure with three placeholders.

that way it will be useful, as mere syntax preprocessor it's a complete
bullshit -- it increases readability 5% decreasing realiability and
convenience 50%. you can keep reliability and convenience same only when
you'll have a custom editor that will maintain this syntax!

)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")

Ken Tilton skrev:
>
>
> Bill Atkins wrote:
>> "Bill Birch" <birchb@tpg.com.au> writes:
>>
>>
>>> define (fac x)
>>> if (= x 0) 1
>>> * x
>>> fac (- x 1
>>
>>
>> Who are you? Some kind of comedian?
>
> A parenthesis, a bracket, and a brace walk into a bar...

1. The bartender says, "We are closed."

2. The bartender says, "What is this? A joke?"

3. The bartender says, "Left your better halfs at home?"

--
Jens Axel Søgaard

Bill Birch escreveu:
> The Lispin project web site has been launched.
>
> The project's goal is to provide Lisp and Scheme languages with an
> indented syntax similar to SRFI 49 and
> other poposals. e.g.
>
> define (fac x)
> if (= x 0) 1
> * x
> fac (- x 1
>
> The site at http://www.lispin.org/ provides a wiki for collaboration
> and on-line indentation pre-processor. The site itself is implemented
> in an indented Lisp.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Birch
>

No need to develop yet another Lisp implementation. What you need is an
editor that allows you to visualize and edit trees in any way you want.

That would make everybody happy:
- the old farts who don't seem to understand the difference between
presentation and storage/exchange
- the newbies trying to bit off more than they can chew

Problem solved.

Bill Birch schrieb:
> The Lispin project web site has been launched.
>
> The project's goal is to provide Lisp and Scheme languages with an
> indented syntax similar to SRFI 49 and
> other poposals. e.g.
>
> define (fac x)
> if (= x 0) 1
> * x
> fac (- x 1
>
> The site at http://www.lispin.org/ provides a wiki for collaboration
> and on-line indentation pre-processor. The site itself is implemented
> in an indented Lisp.


The funny thing about this is that Lisp has no parentheses. With a tree
editor you could code without using a single paren. They are the visual
tool for the programmer to create a tree.
On the other hand: your language has parens.
So you could announce your project as "LWP - Lisp with Parentheses".


André
--

Jens Axel Søgaard wrote:
> Ken Tilton skrev:
>
>>
>>
>> Bill Atkins wrote:
>>
>>> "Bill Birch" <birchb@tpg.com.au> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>> define (fac x)
>>>> if (= x 0) 1
>>>> * x
>>>> fac (- x 1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Who are you? Some kind of comedian?
>>
>>
>> A parenthesis, a bracket, and a brace walk into a bar...
>
>
> 1. The bartender says, "We are closed."

There's a winner there somewhere.

kt

--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/

"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon

Jens Axel Søgaard wrote:
> Ken Tilton skrev:
>
>>
>>
>> Bill Atkins wrote:
>>
>>> "Bill Birch" <birchb@tpg.com.au> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>> define (fac x)
>>>> if (= x 0) 1
>>>> * x
>>>> fac (- x 1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Who are you? Some kind of comedian?
>>
>>
>> A parenthesis, a bracket, and a brace walk into a bar...
>
>
> 1. The bartender says, "We are closed."
>
> 2. The bartender says, "What is this? A joke?"
>
> 3. The bartender says, "Left your better halfs at home?"

There's a "we don't take kindly to your type around here" joke in here
somewhere.

It might involve the bartender pointing to a sign reading "This is an
indentation-sensitive establishment".

Anton

> With a tree editor you could code without using a single paren.
> They are the visual tool for the programmer to create a tree.

I am wondering what a simple program looks like in a tree. Could you
show one? Thx.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:38:40 -0800, Neo wrote:

>> With a tree editor you could code without using a single paren.
>> They are the visual tool for the programmer to create a tree.
>
> I am wondering what a simple program looks like in a tree. Could you
> show one? Thx.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....50088218d355e5

--
Lars Rune Nøstdal
http://lars.nostdal.org/

"Neo" <neo55592@hotmail.com> writes:

>> With a tree editor you could code without using a single paren.
>> They are the visual tool for the programmer to create a tree.
>
> I am wondering what a simple program looks like in a tree. Could you
> show one? Thx.

Yes. Just read more cll :-)

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....50088218d355e5

--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

The world will now reboot. don't bother saving your artefacts.