Which is the best implementation of LISP family of languages for realworld programming ?

On Jun 12, 1:54Â*pm, Å*tÄ›pán NÄ›mec <step...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eli Barzilay <e...@barzilay.org> writes:
> >> If the environment were open, why would some facilities be hidden in
> >> its tools? Among other things, you can't single step Racket outside
> >> of DrRacket. That sounds as a closed environment to me.
>
> > How is that closed when the code for doing so is all there as part of
> > any *OPEN* source project? Â*I don't even need to defend some black
> > C-level voodoo that does it, since it's all done in scheme code. Â*It's
> > true that most of the current code uses the GUI, but that's only
> > because nobody felt the need yet for doing so outside of the GUI.
>
> [snip]
>
> I find this really hard to believe. I use the GUI only for the debugger
> and macro stepper. I would _love_ to have that functionality available
> in a regular REPL (OTOH, especially the macro stepper uses a lot of
> "eye-candyish" features, so it is a bit hard to imagine in some kind of
> text-only interface).

The macro stepper provides a repl-based text interface:
http://docs.racket-lang.org/macro-de...tepper-text%29

On Jun 12, 12:57*pm, p...@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
wrote:
> George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net> writes:
> > On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:57:08 +0300, "Antti \"Andy\" Ylikoski"
> > <antti.yliko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>OT: *(very Off Topic.............)
> >>I would not trust dolphins to take care of my investments.
>
> > Why not? *Remember the chimpanzee that picked stocks and beat many
> > professional fund managers?
> >http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dar...ill-making-mon...
>
> > The average dolphin's brain is bigger than the average human's (and
> > far bigger than a chimpanzee's). *Dolphin investment strategies might
> > look fishy to us but dolphins have a unique point of view on important
> > industries such as transportation, telecommunications, construction,
> > tourism, energy exploration, food production, etc. *
>
> > I'd trust a dolphin over a Wall Street fund manager any day.
>
> Me too. *At least, the dolphin wouldn't be a former SEC president, and
> would have no use for our painfully spared dollars.
>
> --
> __Pascal Bourguignon__ * * * * * * * * * *http://www.informatimago.com/

Are we really so sure to be that off topic ?

What about the sweet Bernard Madoff ?

On Jun 12, 12:57*pm, p...@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
wrote:
> George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net> writes:
> > On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:57:08 +0300, "Antti \"Andy\" Ylikoski"
> > <antti.yliko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>OT: *(very Off Topic.............)
> >>I would not trust dolphins to take care of my investments.
>
> > Why not? *Remember the chimpanzee that picked stocks and beat many
> > professional fund managers?
> >http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dar...ill-making-mon...
>
> > The average dolphin's brain is bigger than the average human's (and
> > far bigger than a chimpanzee's). *Dolphin investment strategies might
> > look fishy to us but dolphins have a unique point of view on important
> > industries such as transportation, telecommunications, construction,
> > tourism, energy exploration, food production, etc. *
>
> > I'd trust a dolphin over a Wall Street fund manager any day.
>
> Me too. *At least, the dolphin wouldn't be a former SEC president, and
> would have no use for our painfully spared dollars.
>
> --
> __Pascal Bourguignon__ * * * * * * * * * *http://www.informatimago.com/

Are we so sure to go so much off topic to SEC and Bernard Madoff ?

----
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX18zUp6WPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQapkVCx1HI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ-k-iOg0M

Hey Racist and INcompetent FBI Bustards, where is the ANTHRAX Mailer ?
Where are the 4 blackboxes ? Where are the Pentagon Videos ? Why did
you release the 5 dancing Israelis compromising the whole 911
investigation ? If the Dubai Police can catch Mossad Murderers and put
the videos and Iranian Police can why cant you put the Pentagon
Videos ? If Iran police can put the AMERICAN TERRORIST, Riggi and
puting on INTERNATIONAL MEDIA a day after catching him without
TORTURE, why cant you put the INNOCENT patsies on the MEDIA. Why did
you have to LIE about Dr Afiya Siddiqui and torture that Innocent
little mother of 3 and smashing the skull of her one child ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhMcii8smxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SZ2lxDJmdg

There are CRIMINAL cases against CIA CRIMINAL Bustards in Italian
courts.

FBI bustards paid a penalty of $5.8 million to Steven Hatfill, but
only because he was a white. They got away with MURDER of thousands of
Non-whites in all parts of the world.

Daily 911 news : http://911blogger.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7kGZ3XPEm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX18zUp6WPY

Å*tÄ›pán NÄ›mec <stepnem@gmail.com> writes:

> Eli Barzilay <eli@barzilay.org> writes:
>>> If the environment were open, why would some facilities be hidden in
>>> its tools? Among other things, you can't single step Racket outside
>>> of DrRacket. That sounds as a closed environment to me.
>>
>> How is that closed when the code for doing so is all there as part of
>> any *OPEN* source project? I don't even need to defend some black
>> C-level voodoo that does it, since it's all done in scheme code. It's
>> true that most of the current code uses the GUI, but that's only
>> because nobody felt the need yet for doing so outside of the GUI.
>
> [snip]
>
> I find this really hard to believe.

I don't know what "this" refers to. Most of what I said are facts,
the most important one is that Racket *is* an open system. (At least
it would be damn hard to find a definition of "closed" that will make
it a relevant term.)

Or if you're saying that you don't believe that nobody felt the need
for doing so outside of the gui -- sure, some people felt a need for
it, but it was never substantial enough to result in some form of
working code. The pieces are all there, and they're not that hard to
use either -- yet nobody has picked up the ball. (And that's also a
plain fact.) I've even suggested a route to writing an Emacs package
that will make it possible to have multiple evaluators where each
corresponds to a different buffer using the sandbox library (which can
be seen as the core of what DrRacket uses to do the same). I've
brought this up two or three times, and yet nobody picked it up.


> I use the GUI only for the debugger and macro stepper. I would
> _love_ to have that functionality available in a regular REPL (OTOH,
> especially the macro stepper uses a lot of "eye-candyish" features,
> so it is a bit hard to imagine in some kind of text-only interface).

Like I said -- the debugger is based on mztake, a project that made a
scriptable event-based debugger. You can still get the code for that
at http://www.cs.brown.edu/research/plt/software/mztake/, or you can
start with the current debugger -- the important piece of code is
"collects/gui-debugger/annotator.rkt" which instruments code to be
debugged; and "debug-tool.rkt" is where the gui front end lives.
You'll see that most of the hard work is done in the latter, since the
interface is in general more difficult than the core debugging
facility. You can choose some completely text-based interface, or
some Emacs interface: the core annotator is practically all there in
that "annotator.rkt" file.

So -- here's the ball. Will you pick it up now?

As for the macro stepper -- well, that one already has a textual
interface (see section 3 of the macro debugger manual at:
http://docs.racket-lang.org/macro-debugger/). In fact, it is one of a
few tools that my interactive hack uses. That's a bunch of hacks that
make it easier (for me, at least) to do my work -- see it at
http://barzilay.org/hacks.html. It doesn't have any fancy interface
to stepping through macro expansion -- basically just dumps the steps
out, and it could certainly use more improvements. If you're serious
about making this work, I'll be happy to dump my thing on github to
make it more easily tweakable, and I'll be happy to provide the right
pointers.

So we now have a second ball on the ground. Will you pick this one up
too?

If you pick those balls up, you'll be making something that has a good
chance to be popular (and it will obviously demonstrate that Elena's
statement about Racket being a closed system is bogus). If you don't
pick them up, you'll be providing one more reason why my claim that
"nobody felt the need yet for doing so outside of the GUI" is true.

--
((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!

On Jun 12, 1:14*pm, nanothermite911fbibustards
<nanothermite911fbibusta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 12:57*pm, p...@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > George Neuner <gneun...@comcast.net> writes:
> > > On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:57:08 +0300, "Antti \"Andy\" Ylikoski"
> > > <antti.yliko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>OT: *(very Off Topic.............)
> > >>I would not trust dolphins to take care of my investments.
>
> > > Why not? *Remember the chimpanzee that picked stocks and beat many
> > > professional fund managers?
> > >http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dar...ill-making-mon....
>
> > > The average dolphin's brain is bigger than the average human's (and
> > > far bigger than a chimpanzee's). *Dolphin investment strategies might
> > > look fishy to us but dolphins have a unique point of view on important
> > > industries such as transportation, telecommunications, construction,
> > > tourism, energy exploration, food production, etc. *
>
> > > I'd trust a dolphin over a Wall Street fund manager any day.
>
> > Me too. *At least, the dolphin wouldn't be a former SEC president, and
> > would have no use for our painfully spared dollars.
>
> > --
> > __Pascal Bourguignon__ * * * * * * * * * *http://www.informatimago.com/
>
> Are we really so sure to be that off topic ?
>
> What about the sweet Bernard Madoff ?

how to get off topic
-----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX18zUp6WPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQapkVCx1HI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ-k-iOg0M

Hey Racist and INcompetent FBI Bustards, where is the ANTHRAX Mailer ?
Where are the 4 blackboxes ? Where are the Pentagon Videos ? Why did
you release the 5 dancing Israelis compromising the whole 911
investigation ? If the Dubai Police can catch Mossad Murderers and put
the videos and Iranian Police can why cant you put the Pentagon
Videos ? If Iran police can put the AMERICAN TERRORIST, Riggi and
puting on INTERNATIONAL MEDIA a day after catching him without
TORTURE, why cant you put the INNOCENT patsies on the MEDIA. Why did
you have to LIE about Dr Afiya Siddiqui and torture that Innocent
little mother of 3 and smashing the skull of her one child ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhMcii8smxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SZ2lxDJmdg

There are CRIMINAL cases against CIA CRIMINAL Bustards in Italian
courts.

FBI bustards paid a penalty of $5.8 million to Steven Hatfill, but
only because he was a white. They got away with MURDER of thousands of
Non-whites in all parts of the world.

Daily 911 news : http://911blogger.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7kGZ3XPEm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX18zUp6WPY

12.6.2010 21:06, George Neuner kirjoitti:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:57:08 +0300, "Antti \"Andy\" Ylikoski"
> <antti.ylikoski@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OT: (very Off Topic.............)
>> I would not trust dolphins to take care of my investments.
>
> Why not? Remember the chimpanzee that picked stocks and beat many
> professional fund managers?
> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dar...s?pagenumber=2
>

It is rather easy to show that in a "homo homini lupus" stock market a
non-ultra-professional (not affiliated with the MKULTRA) strategy is
actually worse than a completely random strategy.

Therefore, these small-brained primates of the genus Pan can actually be
advantageously used in making stocks related business decisions.

One disadvantage is the pecking order of chimpanzees. Chimps detest,
hate, and will bully, any intelligent animate beings, in particular
intelligent beings of the Homo sapiens sapiens genus. Scientific data
are insufficient concerning, how they will relate to inanimate
intelligent objects such as AI.

-- Well, that story, roughly, was what one of my American Jewish
acquaintances (with the surname Levine) suggested to me after he got to
know me and my story.

> The average dolphin's brain is bigger than the average human's (and
> far bigger than a chimpanzee's). Dolphin investment strategies might
> look fishy to us but dolphins have a unique point of view on important
> industries such as transportation, telecommunications, construction,
> tourism, energy exploration, food production, etc.
>
> I'd trust a dolphin over a Wall Street fund manager any day.

Individuals whose political views are in the left are probably the only
ones who will call bankers and their kind "untrustworthy".

One note of leftist politics. When the USSR still was there then there
was there a common pastime in Finland: travel to the USSR as a tourist,
smuggle say a dozen nylons (the kind that women wear) with you, sell the
nylons to Russian ladies, and then with the money that you got from the
nylons invite all of your friends to an expensive (to the proletariat,
expensive) restaurant and spend the entire evening and night there,
enjoying the best of food and drinks, until early morning light. The
money will suffice, nylons were being considered so precious in the USSR.

So common nylons were above the technological capabilities of the
Communist system. When Ronal Reagan announced the Strategic Defence
Initiative, the leaders of the USSR military said they will devise an
SDI system of their own. But, if it is clearly too difficult for the
Communist system to make womens' nylons, then I would not very much fear
the Russkies' capabilities to thwart Reagan's SDI plans, and that which
those plans originally by Reagan have become as decades have passed.

One more note. Russkies have been reputed to have killer satellites,
eg. equip an ordinary in the sky relocatable satellite with a relatively
big explosive (nuclear warheads would be best under actual combat
circumstances) and detonate it close enough to the enemy satellite so
that the explosion will incapacitate the enemy satellite. I decided not
to write more about this here.

kind regards, A. J. Y.

Eli Barzilay <eli@barzilay.org> writes:

[Just to clarify, my "hard to believe" was only related to the "nobody
felt the need" part.]

>> I use the GUI only for the debugger and macro stepper. I would
>> _love_ to have that functionality available in a regular REPL (OTOH,
>> especially the macro stepper uses a lot of "eye-candyish" features,
>> so it is a bit hard to imagine in some kind of text-only interface).
>
> Like I said -- the debugger is based on mztake, a project that made a
> scriptable event-based debugger. You can still get the code for that
> at http://www.cs.brown.edu/research/plt/software/mztake/, or you can
> start with the current debugger -- the important piece of code is
> "collects/gui-debugger/annotator.rkt" which instruments code to be
> debugged; and "debug-tool.rkt" is where the gui front end lives.
> You'll see that most of the hard work is done in the latter, since the
> interface is in general more difficult than the core debugging
> facility. You can choose some completely text-based interface, or
> some Emacs interface: the core annotator is practically all there in
> that "annotator.rkt" file.
>
> So -- here's the ball. Will you pick it up now?

I don't think so.

> As for the macro stepper -- well, that one already has a textual
> interface (see section 3 of the macro debugger manual at:
> http://docs.racket-lang.org/macro-debugger/). In fact, it is one of a
> few tools that my interactive hack uses. That's a bunch of hacks that
> make it easier (for me, at least) to do my work -- see it at
> http://barzilay.org/hacks.html. It doesn't have any fancy interface
> to stepping through macro expansion -- basically just dumps the steps
> out, and it could certainly use more improvements. If you're serious
> about making this work, I'll be happy to dump my thing on github to
> make it more easily tweakable, and I'll be happy to provide the right
> pointers.

Are you speaking about interactive.ss? I discovered that a week or so
ago, but the command list produced by `,help' doesn't suggest any macro
stepper features?

> So we now have a second ball on the ground. Will you pick this one up
> too?

Thank you (and Sam) for the pointers.

I don't think my very limited abilities would suffice for me to get the
projects you suggest done in any reasonable time (or at all). So maybe
the problem is not that "nobody felt the need", but that most of those
who would benefit are rookies like me -- if we take your example, you
say you use Emacs most of the time, so I'm guessing you don't really
miss the debugging functionality (or at least the part not available
outside DrRacket), and that this might be true for most of those for
whom it would be actually rather easy to implement these features (given
some spare time)?


Å*tÄ›pán

12.6.2010 22:54, Pascal J. Bourguignon kirjoitti:
> bolega<gnuist006@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> [PAIP]
>>
>> Is there anything in this old norvig book that makes it worth
>> pursuing as a text ?
>
> Yes.
>

I agree with his criticism that the book is "old", mine stems from the
year 1992.

I bought and studied the Russell-Norvig books on "Artificial
Intelligence: A Modern Approach", ie. the 1th, 2nd (and in the future
the 3rd edition), in order to learn modern AI theory. They have
discontinued the 3rd edition but I succeeded in ordering a copy anyway.
I have read the 1st and the 2nd editions, but I have not yet received
by mail the 3rd edition.

But I only got the PAIP book to learn Common LISP, not in order to study
modern AI. This is why I'm discussing this in the new:comp.lang.LISP
newsgroup.

Any good modern LISP textbooks out there?

Can anyone point to me any other good modern textbooks on AI than the
3rd edition of the Russell-Norvig book? (Which is reputable.)

kind regards, Antti Ylikoski
Helsinki, Finland, the E.U.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:02:32 +0300, Antti \"Andy\" Ylikoski wrote:

> Any good modern LISP textbooks out there?

Practical Common Lisp.

Tamas

13.6.2010 7:02, Antti "Andy" Ylikoski kirjoitti:
> 12.6.2010 22:54, Pascal J. Bourguignon kirjoitti:
>> bolega<gnuist006@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> [PAIP]
>>>
>>> Is there anything in this old norvig book that makes it worth
>>> pursuing as a text ?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>
> I agree with his criticism that the book is "old", mine stems from the
> year 1992.
>
> I bought and studied the Russell-Norvig books on "Artificial
> Intelligence: A Modern Approach", ie. the 1th, 2nd (and in the future
> the 3rd edition), in order to learn modern AI theory. They have
> discontinued the 3rd edition but I succeeded in ordering a copy anyway.
> I have read the 1st and the 2nd editions, but I have not yet received by
> mail the 3rd edition.
>
> But I only got the PAIP book to learn Common LISP, not in order to study
> modern AI. This is why I'm discussing this in the news:comp.lang.LISP
> newsgroup.
>
> Any good modern LISP textbooks out there?
>
> Can anyone point to me any other good modern textbooks on AI than the
> 3rd edition of the Russell-Norvig book? (Which is reputable.)
>
> kind regards, Antti Ylikoski
> Helsinki, Finland, the E.U.

I answer my own question: it is a very good idea to visit the AAAI site

http://www.aaai.org

and purchase several conference proceedings of the biennal AAAI
conference. -- This is for those who want something more non-basic than
a textbook.

kind regards, Antti J. Ylikoski

(Dislaimer: in the LISP newsgroup this is almost off topic............)

PS. Also see the IJCAI biennal conference proceedings, from the Google
or the Bing.

Idem

Å*tÄ›pán NÄ›mec <stepnem@gmail.com> writes:

> Eli Barzilay <eli@barzilay.org> writes:
>
> [Just to clarify, my "hard to believe" was only related to the "nobody
> felt the need" part.]
>
>>> I use the GUI only for the debugger and macro stepper. I would
>>> _love_ to have that functionality available in a regular REPL (OTOH,
>>> especially the macro stepper uses a lot of "eye-candyish" features,
>>> so it is a bit hard to imagine in some kind of text-only interface).
>>
>> Like I said -- the debugger is based on mztake, a project that made a
>> scriptable event-based debugger. You can still get the code for that
>> at http://www.cs.brown.edu/research/plt/software/mztake/, or you can
>> start with the current debugger -- the important piece of code is
>> "collects/gui-debugger/annotator.rkt" which instruments code to be
>> debugged; and "debug-tool.rkt" is where the gui front end lives.
>> You'll see that most of the hard work is done in the latter, since the
>> interface is in general more difficult than the core debugging
>> facility. You can choose some completely text-based interface, or
>> some Emacs interface: the core annotator is practically all there in
>> that "annotator.rkt" file.
>>
>> So -- here's the ball. Will you pick it up now?
>
> I don't think so.

.... and therewego: an example of "nobody felt the need" to the point
of doing something about it.


>> As for the macro stepper -- well, that one already has a textual
>> interface (see section 3 of the macro debugger manual at:
>> http://docs.racket-lang.org/macro-debugger/). In fact, it is one of a
>> few tools that my interactive hack uses. That's a bunch of hacks that
>> make it easier (for me, at least) to do my work -- see it at
>> http://barzilay.org/hacks.html. It doesn't have any fancy interface
>> to stepping through macro expansion -- basically just dumps the steps
>> out, and it could certainly use more improvements. If you're serious
>> about making this work, I'll be happy to dump my thing on github to
>> make it more easily tweakable, and I'll be happy to provide the right
>> pointers.
>
> Are you speaking about interactive.ss? I discovered that a week or so
> ago, but the command list produced by `,help' doesn't suggest any macro
> stepper features?

Use ",help stx".


>> So we now have a second ball on the ground. Will you pick this one up
>> too?
>
> Thank you (and Sam) for the pointers.
>
> I don't think my very limited abilities would suffice for me to get
> the projects you suggest done in any reasonable time (or at all). So
> maybe the problem is not that "nobody felt the need", but that most
> of those who would benefit are rookies like me -- if we take your
> example, you say you use Emacs most of the time, so I'm guessing you
> don't really miss the debugging functionality (or at least the part
> not available outside DrRacket), and that this might be true for
> most of those for whom it would be actually rather easy to implement
> these features (given some spare time)?

That's possible -- but I generally was trying to avoid such guesswork.
My point was that nobody felt enough need to actually do something
about it, which is a plain fact -- whether this is because the
need/investment ratio is usually <1 or whatever other reason might
have caused it is speculation. What certainly is not real is some
evil conspiracy to deprive people of debugging tools.

--
((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay:
http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life!

13.6.2010 8:46, Tamas K Papp kirjoitti:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:02:32 +0300, Antti \"Andy\" Ylikoski wrote:
>
>> Any good modern LISP textbooks out there?
>
> Practical Common Lisp.
>
> Tamas

Yes, it is a good book -- I have read it but not yet done the programs
in the book, plus I will have to do the exercises.

Andy

On Jun 12, 9:02*pm, "Antti \"Andy\" Ylikoski"
<antti.yliko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 12.6.2010 22:54, Pascal J. Bourguignon kirjoitti:
>
> > bolega<gnuist...@gmail.com> *writes:
>
> >>> [PAIP]
>
> >> Is there anything in this old norvig book that makes it worth
> >> pursuing as a text ?
>
> > Yes.
>
> I agree with his criticism that the book is "old", mine stems from the
> year 1992.
>
> I bought and studied the Russell-Norvig books on "Artificial
> Intelligence: A Modern Approach", ie. the 1th, 2nd (and in the future
> the 3rd edition), in order to learn modern AI theory. *They have
> discontinued the 3rd edition but I succeeded in ordering a copy anyway.
> * I have read the 1st and the 2nd editions, but I have not yet received
> by mail the 3rd edition.
>
> But I only got the PAIP book to learn Common LISP, not in order to study
> modern AI. *This *is why I'm discussing this in the new:comp.lang.LISP
> newsgroup.
>
> Any good modern LISP textbooks out there?
>
> Can anyone point to me any other good modern textbooks on AI than the
> 3rd edition of the Russell-Norvig book? *(Which is reputable.)
>
> kind regards, Antti Ylikoski
> Helsinki, Finland, the E.U.

Antti, did you forget to mention that in your love for the author and
publisher you paid an extra tip ?

Pascal Costanza <pc@p-cos.net> writes:

> On 12/06/2010 19:36, bolega wrote:
> > Is there anything in this old
> > norvig book that makes it worth pursuing as a text ?
> >
> > http://norvig.com/paip.html
>
> This "old" book by Peter Norvig is still one of the best Common Lisp
> introductions you can find, and has some excellent material that is not
> covered elsewhere. If you are interested in some fundamental AI concepts
> at the same time, this is one of the best choices.

I agree.

If you are adept at picking up programming languages, you can just start
with this one, since it does have an introduction to the language in the
early parts of the book. But for some people, the terse introduction is
a bit too barebones. It introduces the language but it isn't a
tutorial, so for a lot of people this would make a better second book.

--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute

On Jun 14, 8:29*am, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
> Pascal Costanza <p...@p-cos.net> writes:
> > On 12/06/2010 19:36, bolega wrote:
> > > Is there anything in this old
> > > norvig book that makes it worth pursuing as a text ?
>
> > >http://norvig.com/paip.html
>
> > This "old" book by Peter Norvig is still one of the best Common Lisp
> > introductions you can find, and has some excellent material that is not
> > covered elsewhere. If you are interested in some fundamental AI concepts
> > at the same time, this is one of the best choices.
>
> I agree.
>
> If you are adept at picking up programming languages, you can just start
> with this one, since it does have an introduction to the language in the
> early parts of the book. *But for some people, the terse introduction is
> a bit too barebones. *It introduces the language but it isn't a
> tutorial, so for a lot of people this would make a better second book.
>
> --
> Thomas A. Russ, *USC/Information Sciences Institute

I think the guy wanted to know how to embed a Scheme or Lisp
interpreter inside his C code and do useful things with it.

=======
Vacation Responder

The FAT per DIEM FBI bustards use our TAX PAYER MONEY and INCOMPETENCE
is UNACCEPTABLE.

=====

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX18zUp6WPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQapkVCx1HI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ-k-iOg0M

Hey Racist and INcompetent FBI Bustards, where is the ANTHRAX Mailer ?
Where are the 4 blackboxes ? Where are the Pentagon Videos ? Why did
you release the 5 dancing Israelis compromising the whole 911
investigation ? If the Dubai Police can catch Mossad Murderers and put
the videos and Iranian Police can why cant you put the Pentagon
Videos ? If Iran police can put the AMERICAN TERRORIST, Riggi and
puting on INTERNATIONAL MEDIA a day after catching him without
TORTURE, why cant you put the INNOCENT patsies on the MEDIA. Why did
you have to LIE about Dr Afiya Siddiqui and torture that Innocent
little mother of 3 and smashing the skull of her one child ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhMcii8smxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SZ2lxDJmdg

There are CRIMINAL cases against CIA CRIMINAL Bustards in Italian
courts.

FBI bustards paid a penalty of $5.8 million to Steven Hatfill, but
only because he was a white. They got away with MURDER of thousands of
Non-whites in all parts of the world.

Daily 911 news : http://911blogger.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7kGZ3XPEm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX18zUp6WPY

Conclusion : FBI bustards are RACIST and INcompetent. They could
neither catch the ANTHRAX or 911 YANK/Jew criminals nor could they
cover them up - whichever was their actual task.

SLASH the SALARIES of FBI/CIA/NSA etc BUSTARDS into half all across
tbe board, esp the whites/jew on the top.

FBI Bustards failed to Catch BERNARD MADOFF even after that RACIST and
UNPATRIOTIC Act
FBI bustards failed to prevent ROMAN POLANSKY from absconding to
europe and rapes.
FBI bustards failed to prevent OKLAHOMA