Can draft standard -94 used as documentation like this?

Hello!

I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
kind of documentation.

Something like
ok HELP SWAP
SWAP
CORE
( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
Exchange the top two stack items.
(c) dpANS FORTH94
ok

As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
foundation?

Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
and crosses necks and puts back to stack?

Copyright statement:

Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.

This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.

Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
by the official ANS.

Best regards,
Hannu Vuolasaho

The requirement to copy it "in its entirety" would seem be be a problem.
The document is factored such that the glossary entries don't stand
alone: they reference other sections giving rules of usage, etc. So, in
addition to showing the specific glossary entry, you'd also need to add
links to everything that entry references, and make sure the entirety of
the document is available somehow.

I think it's much more appropriate to simply include the whole document
in your package, along with a manual documenting specific usage issues
pertaining to your implementation.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

On 6/27/12 2:35 PM, Hannu Vuolasaho wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
> documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
> words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
> something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
> kind of documentation.
>
> Something like
> ok HELP SWAP
> SWAP
> CORE
> ( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
> Exchange the top two stack items.
> (c) dpANS FORTH94
> ok
>
> As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
> foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
> foundation?
>
> Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
> and crosses necks and puts back to stack?
>
> Copyright statement:
>
> Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.
>
> This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
> the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
> Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
> copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
> text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
> existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.
>
> Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
> foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
> long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
> resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
> by the official ANS.
>
> Best regards,
> Hannu Vuolasaho
>


--
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

On 28.6.2012 3:35, Hannu Vuolasaho wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
> documentation about word. > Best regards,
> Hannu Vuolasaho
>

Hi,
I have made simple help system on my FlashForth.

The help texts are kept in flash and you can give commands like

HELP DUP
DUP ( x -- x x ) Duplicate the top of stack
ok


BR Mike
--
FlashForth: for PIC and Atmega
http://sourceforge.net/projects/flashforth/
http://flashforth.sourceforge.net

"Hannu Vuolasaho" <firstname.lastname@tut.fi.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnjun9n3.ofo.hannu.vuolasaho@haikara.cs.tut .fi...
> Hello!
>
> I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
> documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
> words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
> something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
> kind of documentation.
>
> Something like
> ok HELP SWAP
> SWAP
> CORE
> ( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
> Exchange the top two stack items.
> (c) dpANS FORTH94
> ok
>

There is no need for (c) here.

> As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
> foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
> foundation?
>
> Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
> and crosses necks and puts back to stack?
>
> Copyright statement:
>
> Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.
>
> This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
> the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
> Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
> copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
> text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
> existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.
>
> Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
> foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
> long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
> resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
> by the official ANS.
>

ANYTHING which is REQUIRED to comply with the implementation of a
SPECIFICATION is NOT COPYRIGHTABLE under USA's copyright laws.
IIRC, this was due to Supreme Court cases, not explicitly the laws on the
books. So, you can use the names of Forth words, the stack definitions, and
any required definitions, etc without obtaining permission. For the Forth
standard's, that's not much. Stating which specification a Forth word came
from is not their content. That's content you created for your Forth, even
if the information came from their specification. Copyrights don't protect
information content. They protect the _expression_ of information content.
Also, USA copyright laws also don't protect trivially small amounts of
material. E.g., you could provide ANS section numbers without any
infringement. What you can't do is quote entire descriptions for Forth
words. That would fall under copyright protections and would require you to
comply with their statement above about copying and changes.

I'd first start by dropping the (c) mark you've placed in your HELP word.
The (c) implies that it came from their material. You created "dpANS
FORTH94" for your Forth. Neither "dpANS" nor "FORTH94" is in the standard.
"dpANS" is in some of the drafts of the standard, usually with a dash and
number. Even if it was from their material, it is too small to qualify for
copyright protection under USA's laws. If you're worried, you can easily
change it to something similar too: FORTH-94, Forth-94, Forth 94, Forth 1994
standard, 1994 std. Forth, ANS Forth, ANS-94, etc.

This is all assuming 1) they've properly filed and received US Federal
government copyrights, 2) they've properly maintained their copyright via
payment of renewal fees and haven't let their copyright expire via
non-payment, and 3) that you're subject to US copyright laws either directly
as a US citizen or indirectly via some international treaty. Today, many
people and organizations claim copyright without ever filing... Others let
their copyrights expire via non-payment of renewal fees, but will still
claim copyrights. Standards organizations make money by creating
specifications, and selling them. Part of their revenue must go towards
renewal of their copyrights. It's probably substantial. However, if
they're in serious financial trouble, I can see them not paying for
copyright renewals.

I.e., if you're truly interested in using their document for your help, it
might be worth your while to determine if their copyright has expired via
a failure to renew their copyright or not.


Rod Pemberton

IANAL (and not even a US person), but...

On 2012-06-28, Rod Pemberton <do_not_have@notemailnot.cmm> wrote:
> This is all assuming 1) they've properly filed and received US Federal
> government copyrights, 2) they've properly maintained their copyright via
> payment of renewal fees and haven't let their copyright expire via
> non-payment, and 3) that you're subject to US copyright laws either directly
> as a US citizen or indirectly via some international treaty. Today, many
> people and organizations claim copyright without ever filing... Others let
> their copyrights expire via non-payment of renewal fees, but will still
> claim copyrights. Standards organizations make money by creating

Copyright filings and renewals are voluntary; copyright exists even
without them. You will need to register before filing an infringement
suit, and prompt registration is good evidence of copyright validity in
court, but the lack of registration does not preclude copyright
protection for a work.

"Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the
moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you
wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work.

Do I have to renew my copyright?

No. Works created on or after January 1, 1978, are not subject to
renewal registration. As to works published or registered prior to
January 1, 1978, renewal registration is optional after 28 years but
does provide certain legal advantages."

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/


--
Heikki Kallasjoki

On Jun 28, 1:35*am, Hannu Vuolasaho
<firstname.lastn...@tut.fi.invalid> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
> documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
> words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
> something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
> kind of documentation.
>
> Something like
> ok HELP SWAP
> SWAP
> CORE
> * * * * ( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
> Exchange the top two stack items.
> (c) dpANS FORTH94
> ok
>
> As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
> foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
> foundation?
>
> Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
> and crosses necks and puts back to stack?
>
> Copyright statement:
>
> Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.
>
> This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
> the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
> Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
> copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
> text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
> existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.
>
> Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
> foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
> long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
> resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
> by the official ANS.
>
> Best regards,
> Hannu Vuolasaho

If the text of the ANS document is a copyright issue, feel free to use
the descriptions here:

http://turboforth.net/language_reference.html

Beware though: My system is an Forth-83 system - though for the CORE
words, you should be fine.

Being Forth-83, there are a few words missing (from an ANS CORE
perspective) though I was quite surprised at just how *few* were
missing. It seems it would be *relatively* easy to bump my home-brew
system up to ANS, though it remains to be seen if it would require any
low-level re-architecting in order to support some of the words (PARSE
etc).

Just thinking out loud...

On Jun 28, 10:54*am, Mark Wills <markrobertwi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jun 28, 1:35*am, Hannu Vuolasaho
>
>
>
>
>
> <firstname.lastn...@tut.fi.invalid> wrote:
> > Hello!
>
> > I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
> > documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
> > words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
> > something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
> > kind of documentation.
>
> > Something like
> > ok HELP SWAP
> > SWAP
> > CORE
> > * * * * ( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
> > Exchange the top two stack items.
> > (c) dpANS FORTH94
> > ok
>
> > As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
> > foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
> > foundation?
>
> > Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
> > and crosses necks and puts back to stack?
>
> > Copyright statement:
>
> > Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.
>
> > This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
> > the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
> > Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
> > copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
> > text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
> > existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.
>
> > Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
> > foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
> > long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
> > resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
> > by the official ANS.
>
> > Best regards,
> > Hannu Vuolasaho
>
> If the text of the ANS document is a copyright issue, feel free to use
> the descriptions here:
>
> http://turboforth.net/language_reference.html
>
> Beware though: My system is an Forth-83 system - though for the CORE
> words, you should be fine.
>
> Being Forth-83, there are a few words missing (from an ANS CORE
> perspective) though I was quite surprised at just how *few* were
> missing. It seems it would be *relatively* easy to bump my home-brew
> system up to ANS, though it remains to be seen if it would require any
> low-level re-architecting in order to support some of the words (PARSE
> etc).
>
> Just thinking out loud...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually, on that subject, are there any 16-bit ANS Forth system in
existence?

I guess Forth Inc's MSP430 SwiftX is a 16-bit ANS Forth (for example),
right?

Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Actually, on that subject, are there any 16-bit ANS Forth system in
> existence?

There were many, and I suppose they still exist. Why ask?

Andrew.

On Jun 28, 1:35*am, Hannu Vuolasaho
<firstname.lastn...@tut.fi.invalid> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
> documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
> words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
> something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
> kind of documentation.
>
> Something like
> ok HELP SWAP
> SWAP
> CORE
> * * * * ( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
> Exchange the top two stack items.
> (c) dpANS FORTH94
> ok
>
> As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
> foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
> foundation?
>
> Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
> and crosses necks and puts back to stack?
>
> Copyright statement:
>
> Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.
>
> This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
> the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
> Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
> copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
> text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
> existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.
>
> Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
> foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
> long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
> resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
> by the official ANS.
>
> Best regards,
> Hannu Vuolasaho

The paras above don't apply to the ANS or ISO doc; what you're
referencing is the last draft from the committee. The draft is
probably good enough though, and I can't see that what you are
proposing is a copyright violation; specifically, as long as you note
the copyright -- once, probably in a README, but definitely *not* by
making up a copyright mark like dpANS FORTH94. And then, mark your
changes so that they are clearly identifiable as not from the spec.

On Jun 28, 9:31*am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notemailnot.cmm>
wrote:
> "Hannu Vuolasaho" <firstname.lastn...@tut.fi.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:slrnjun9n3.ofo.hannu.vuolasaho@haikara.cs.tut .fi...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello!
>
> > I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
> > documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
> > words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
> > something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
> > kind of documentation.
>
> > Something like
> > ok HELP SWAP
> > SWAP
> > CORE
> > ( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
> > Exchange the top two stack items.
> > (c) dpANS FORTH94
> > ok
>
> There is no need for (c) here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
> > foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
> > foundation?
>
> > Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
> > and crosses necks and puts back to stack?
>
> > Copyright statement:
>
> > Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.
>
> > This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
> > the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
> > Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
> > copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
> > text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
> > existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.
>
> > Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
> > foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
> > long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
> > resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
> > by the official ANS.
>
> ANYTHING which is REQUIRED to comply with the implementation of a
> SPECIFICATION is NOT COPYRIGHTABLE under USA's copyright laws.

That is a different subject

> IIRC, this was due to Supreme Court cases, not explicitly the laws on the
> books. *So, you can use the names of Forth words, the stack definitions, and
> any required definitions, etc without obtaining permission. *For the Forth
> standard's, that's not much. *Stating which specification a Forth word came
> from is not their content. *That's content you created for your Forth, even
> if the information came from their specification. *Copyrights don't protect
> information content. *They protect the _expression_ of information content.
> Also, USA copyright laws also don't protect trivially small amounts of
> material. *E.g., you could provide ANS section numbers without any
> infringement. *What you can't do is quote entire descriptions for Forth
> words. *That would fall under copyright protections and would require you to
> comply with their statement above about copying and changes.

Except the last draft from X3J14 has different and a more permissive
license.

>
> I'd first start by dropping the (c) mark you've placed in your HELP word.
> The (c) implies that it came from their material. *You created "dpANS
> FORTH94" for your Forth. *Neither "dpANS" nor "FORTH94" is in the standard.
> "dpANS" is in some of the drafts of the standard, usually with a dash and
> number. *Even if it was from their material, it is too small to qualifyfor
> copyright protection under USA's laws. *If you're worried, you can easily
> change it to something similar too: FORTH-94, Forth-94, Forth 94, Forth 1994
> standard, 1994 std. Forth, ANS Forth, ANS-94, etc.

No, that won't work, and I would not advise making up copyright marks.

>
> This is all assuming 1) they've properly filed and received US Federal
> government copyrights, 2) they've properly maintained their copyright via
> payment of renewal fees and haven't let their copyright expire via
> non-payment, and 3) that you're subject to US copyright laws either directly
> as a US citizen or indirectly via some international treaty. *Today, many
> people and organizations claim copyright without ever filing... *Otherslet
> their copyrights expire via non-payment of renewal fees, but will still
> claim copyrights. *Standards organizations make money by creating
> specifications, and selling them. *Part of their revenue must go towards
> renewal of their copyrights. *It's probably substantial. *However, if
> they're in serious financial trouble, I can see them not paying for
> copyright renewals.
>
> I.e., if you're truly interested in using their document for your help, it
> might be worth your while to determine if their copyright has expired via
> a failure to renew their copyright or not.

Not required. Copyright has not needed to be registered for a number
of years; it exists without it.

>
> Rod Pemberton

On Jun 28, 4:41*am, Heikki Kallasjoki <fis+use...@zem.fi> wrote:
> IANAL (and not even a US person), but...
>
> On 2012-06-28, Rod Pemberton <do_not_h...@notemailnot.cmm> wrote:
>
> > This is all assuming 1) they've properly filed and received US Federal
> > government copyrights, 2) they've properly maintained their copyright via
> > payment of renewal fees and haven't let their copyright expire via
> > non-payment, and 3) that you're subject to US copyright laws either directly
> > as a US citizen or indirectly via some international treaty. *Today, many
> > people and organizations claim copyright without ever filing... *Others let
> > their copyrights expire via non-payment of renewal fees, but will still
> > claim copyrights. *Standards organizations make money by creating
>
> Copyright filings and renewals are voluntary; copyright exists even
> without them. *You will need to register before filing an infringement
> suit, and prompt registration is good evidence of copyright validity in
> court, but the lack of registration does not preclude copyright
> protection for a work.
>
> "Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
>
> No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the
> moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you
> wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work.
>
> Do I have to renew my copyright?
>
> No. Works created on or after January 1, 1978, are not subject to
> renewal registration. As to works published or registered prior to
> January 1, 1978, renewal registration is optional after 28 years but
> does provide certain legal advantages."
>
> http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/
>
> --
> Heikki Kallasjoki

Hmmm, did you just violate the government's copyright on their web
page??? ;^)

Rick

On 6/27/12 11:54 PM, Mark Wills wrote:
....
> Being Forth-83, there are a few words missing (from an ANS CORE
> perspective) though I was quite surprised at just how *few* were
> missing. It seems it would be *relatively* easy to bump my home-brew
> system up to ANS, though it remains to be seen if it would require any
> low-level re-architecting in order to support some of the words (PARSE
> etc).
>
> Just thinking out loud...

You don't have to use PARSE, etc., in your implementation to be
compliant. Remember, ANS Forth does not mandate any implementation
provided that the semantics (behavior) of the required words available
to users is compliant.

In fact, CORE words are the only ones you really have to supply, and
PARSE is in CORE-EXT, so you don't even need to supply that. Just follow
the documentation requirements!

The TC deliberately bent over backwards to make it easy for Forth-83
systems to comply. There are a few required changes (e.g. to the text
interpreter to exhibit the behavior of ACCEPT instead of EXPECT), but
not many.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

--
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

On 6/28/12 12:02 AM, Mark Wills wrote:
> On Jun 28, 10:54 am, Mark Wills <markrobertwi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
....
> Actually, on that subject, are there any 16-bit ANS Forth system in
> existence?
>
> I guess Forth Inc's MSP430 SwiftX is a 16-bit ANS Forth (for example),
> right?

Versions of SwiftX for 8-bit and 16-bit processors are 16-bit
implementations. There are several of them.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

--
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

In article <jsh4lb$9in$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
Rod Pemberton <do_not_have@notemailnot.cmm> wrote:
>"Hannu Vuolasaho" <firstname.lastname@tut.fi.invalid> wrote in message
>news:slrnjun9n3.ofo.hannu.vuolasaho@haikara.cs.tu t.fi...
>> Hello!
>>
>> I've been toying idea of having word HELP which would give some
>> documentation about word. And I was wondering if I can take the standard
>> words and give them help as standard states? Ofcourse there would be
>> something to tell where it came from. Also my own words would have that
>> kind of documentation.
>>
>> Something like
>> ok HELP SWAP
>> SWAP
>> CORE
>> ( x1 x2 -- x2 x1 )
>> Exchange the top two stack items.
>> (c) dpANS FORTH94
>> ok
>>
>
>There is no need for (c) here.
>
>> As the standard's copyright states, it can be used as system manual
>> foundation but is that enough shading, separation and building up from
>> foundation?
>>
>> Or should I write something about two-headed eagle which takes x1 and x2
>> and crosses necks and puts back to stack?
>>
>> Copyright statement:
>>
>> Copyright (c) 1994 by Technical Committee X3J14. All rights reserved.
>>
>> This is a working document of Technical Committee X3J14 which represents
>> the last draft of ANS Forth submitted to ANSI for publication.
>> Permission is hereby granted to copy this document provided that it is
>> copied in its entirety without alteration or as altered by (1) adding
>> text that is clearly marked as an insertion; (2) shading or highlighting
>> existing text; and/or (3) deleting examples.
>>
>> Specifically, permission is granted to use this working document as the
>> foundation for textbooks, system manuals, and online documentation so
>> long as the requirements in the preceding paragraph are met and the
>> resulting product addresses a technical need that is not practically met
>> by the official ANS.
>>
>
>ANYTHING which is REQUIRED to comply with the implementation of a
>SPECIFICATION is NOT COPYRIGHTABLE under USA's copyright laws.
>IIRC, this was due to Supreme Court cases, not explicitly the laws on the
>books. So, you can use the names of Forth words, the stack definitions, and
>any required definitions, etc without obtaining permission. For the Forth
>standard's, that's not much. Stating which specification a Forth word came
>from is not their content. That's content you created for your Forth, even
>if the information came from their specification. Copyrights don't protect
>information content. They protect the _expression_ of information content.
>Also, USA copyright laws also don't protect trivially small amounts of
>material. E.g., you could provide ANS section numbers without any
>infringement. What you can't do is quote entire descriptions for Forth
>words. That would fall under copyright protections and would require you to
>comply with their statement above about copying and changes.
>
>I'd first start by dropping the (c) mark you've placed in your HELP word.

I urge him to do this. We are brain washed into thinking copy right
goes farther than it actually does. Littering those (c) around where
it is not needed at all suggest to people to be very anxious and do
the same. And then suddenly there is ACTA and the land of the free
becomes the land of the "democrats" and "republicans".

(Motivation of the scare quotes:
I'm a real republican. That means, I want the Netherlands not to
be a kingdom. )

>Rod Pemberton

Groetjes Albert

--
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

In article <a5c820bf-1e81-4a71-b353-04ec89088272@a8g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jun 28, 10:54=A0am, Mark Wills <markrobertwi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Jun 28, 1:35=A0am, Hannu Vuolasaho
<SNIP>
>>
>> Being Forth-83, there are a few words missing (from an ANS CORE
>> perspective) though I was quite surprised at just how *few* were
>> missing. It seems it would be *relatively* easy to bump my home-brew
>> system up to ANS, though it remains to be seen if it would require any
>> low-level re-architecting in order to support some of the words (PARSE
>> etc).
>>
>> Just thinking out loud...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Actually, on that subject, are there any 16-bit ANS Forth system in
>existence?

ciforth mina (MSDOS Forth) is approximately ISO. On a good day close
enough for government work.

>
>I guess Forth Inc's MSP430 SwiftX is a 16-bit ANS Forth (for example),
>right?


--
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst