VOPS and SP4

Ginny,

Yes, VOPS uses the same model as MSDN from what I can see. Infragistics uses
the same style subscription. When your subscription runs out, you don’t have
to stop using their products, you just don’t get any more updates or tech
support.

Regards,
Willie

Brian.

You're out of date. Empower is a special program and the price is $150,
not $400+.

The average developer should go for the MAPS Developer subscription
which costs $380 and has no such conditions placed on it. You are free
to continue using the products as long as you are developing Windows
applications.

Geoff



"Brian" <_.ian@g.afxsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4d62d05a$0$10801$c3e8da3$76a7c58f@news.astraw eb.com:

> Hi Ginny,
>
> Empower subscription works this way. (The lower price 400.00- 500.00 USD
> range subscriptions) You will receive an letter telling you to stop using it
> (remove it from your machine).
>
> You can of course buy a MSDN subscription 1500 to 2000 USD range.
>
> VOPS works like MSDN and like MSDN your license can be used forever. Like
> MSDN, VO or Vulcan.NET. Upgrades/Support are only available during the
> time you are subscribed.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> "Ginny Caughey" <ginny.online@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4d62bb72$0$15813$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraw eb.com...
>
> > Brian,
> >
> > Just curious, but which Microsoft products and subscriptions are you
> > referred to? If you have a MSDN subscription that entitles you to, say,
> > Visual Studio 2010 Professional, and you don't renew the subscription at
> > the end of the year, you can continue to use Visual Studio 2010
> > Professional after that. You don't get a free update to Visual Studio 2012
> > (or whatever), but isn't that the same as the Grafx model?
> >
> > Ginny
> >
> > "Brian" wrote in message
> > news:4d6251f4$0$19568$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraw eb.com...
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Since there seems to be some confusion (Posted by the usual promoters of
> > Fear Uncertainly and Doubt (FUD) about what VOPS is, and what you get,
> > I'll
> > make this post to set the record straight.
> >
> > Year One.
> > This is what you get:
> > 1. License to VO (Perpetual license) 2.8 495.00
> > 2. License to Vulcan.NET (Perpetual license) 849.00
> > 3. All builds that are released while you are a subscriber.
> > 4. Support for the period of one year.
> >
> > If at the end of the year, you decide that VOPS is NOT for you, UNLIKE
> > other
> > subscriptions (Microsoft included) You walk way with a full perpetual
> > license to use the software that you downloaded, forever. You however are
> > not entitled to any further upgrades or private support, if you decide not
> > to renew for year two, three ect. With Microsoft's subscription you are
> > required to stop using the software at a specific time.
> >
> > Year 2, 3 4, 5 etc.
> >
> > If During the next year, if you decide to subscribe again, you get:
> > 1. Updates to your existing VO (Perpetual license)
> > 2. Updates to your existing Vulcan.NET (Perpetual license)
> > 3. Support for a year, In our private forms.
> >
> > It's not rocket science ! (Although it seems that a handful of mal
> > contents
> > would like to confuse the issues.)
> >
> > We have NO intention of selling VO as a separate product any longer.
> >
> > Vulcan.NET is the future of Visual Objects. The majority of our
> > Development
> > Resources will go into producing new versions of Vulcan.NET (a VO language
> > for .NET, the future of Development, NOT a 32bit Windows compiler. (VO)
> >
> > The subscription model(VOPS/VNPS) for 995.00 per user, give us a much
> > clearer idea of what we have to spend on development in any given year. It
> > has worked for us for over 5 years now, and has 100's of members.
> > While its not for everyone, it works for the current subscribers and GrafX
> > .
> > It's your choice to subscribe or not subscribe.
> >
> > To order,
> >
> > http://www.grafxsoft.com/2vosubscribe.htm
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >

Yawn....

What is the matter with everyone. If you don't like it, don't buy it,
don't use it. If you don't want to move over to Vulcan, don't, go to
C# or whatever.

Why on earth would you even want an SP4 for VO? Nobody can seriously
be starting new products in VO, and if you're just maintaining
existing apps, then by definition VO must already be working more or
less ok for you as it is.

Nick

"Nick Friend" <nicktekhne@googlemail.com>

> Why on earth would you even want an SP4 for VO? Nobody can seriously
> be starting new products in VO,

well, in that case, nobody can seriously be starting new
products in Vulcan.NET...
..NET languages are all the same and you'd better choose
the best supported one (C# ?)

> and if you're just maintaining
> existing apps, then by definition VO must already be working more or
> less ok for you as it is.

come on! You are twisting the argument.
Someone (not me) has announced a SP for 1k dollars....

Regards,
--
Andrea

MSDN License Terms :
http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...F5-9066-41C0-8
7B8-7DEC628974B8/MSDN_EULA.pdf : I don't see any time limited
usage


MAPS Agreement :
http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...16-6268-4581-a
e07-8ba7c0be77c2/Microsoft_Action_Pack_Subscription_Agreement.pdf
.. Chapter 4 : "Upon expiration or earlier termination of this
Agreement, you agree to immediately cease use of and to destroy
all copies of any Products,..."

--
Phil Mermod
Crystal Reports Library for Visual Objects
http://www.pkl.ch/dev/


Geoff Schaller wrote:

> Brian.
>
> You're out of date. Empower is a special program and the price
> is $150, not $400+.
>
> The average developer should go for the MAPS Developer
> subscription which costs $380 and has no such conditions
> placed on it. You are free to continue using the products as
> long as you are developing Windows applications.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
> "Brian" <_.ian@g.afxsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:4d62d05a$0$10801$c3e8da3$76a7c58f@news.astraw eb.com:
>
> > Hi Ginny,
> >
> > Empower subscription works this way. (The lower price
> > 400.00- 500.00 USD range subscriptions) You will receive an
> > letter telling you to stop using it (remove it from your
> > machine).
> >
> > You can of course buy a MSDN subscription 1500 to 2000 USD
> > range.
> >
> > VOPS works like MSDN and like MSDN your license can be used
> > forever. Like MSDN, VO or Vulcan.NET. Upgrades/Support
> > are only available during the time you are subscribed.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.online@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:4d62bb72$0$15813$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraw eb.com...
> >
> >> Brian,
> > >
> >> Just curious, but which Microsoft products and
> subscriptions are you >> referred to? If you have a MSDN
> subscription that entitles you to, say, >> Visual Studio 2010
> Professional, and you don't renew the subscription at >> the
> end of the year, you can continue to use Visual Studio 2010 >>
> Professional after that. You don't get a free update to Visual
> Studio 2012 >> (or whatever), but isn't that the same as the
> Grafx model?
> > >
> >> Ginny
> > >
> >> "Brian" wrote in message
> >> news:4d6251f4$0$19568$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraw eb.com...
> > >
> >> Hello All,
> > >
> >> Since there seems to be some confusion (Posted by the usual
> promoters of >> Fear Uncertainly and Doubt (FUD) about what
> VOPS is, and what you get, >> I'll
> >> make this post to set the record straight.
> > >
> >> Year One.
> >> This is what you get:
> >> 1. License to VO (Perpetual license) 2.8 495.00
> >> 2. License to Vulcan.NET (Perpetual license) 849.00
> >> 3. All builds that are released while you are a subscriber.
> >> 4. Support for the period of one year.
> > >
> >> If at the end of the year, you decide that VOPS is NOT for
> you, UNLIKE >> other
> >> subscriptions (Microsoft included) You walk way with a full
> perpetual >> license to use the software that you downloaded,
> forever. You however are >> not entitled to any further
> upgrades or private support, if you decide not >> to renew for
> year two, three ect. With Microsoft's subscription you are >>
> required to stop using the software at a specific time.
> > >
> >> Year 2, 3 4, 5 etc.
> > >
> >> If During the next year, if you decide to subscribe again,
> you get: >> 1. Updates to your existing VO (Perpetual license)
> >> 2. Updates to your existing Vulcan.NET (Perpetual license)
> >> 3. Support for a year, In our private forms.
> > >
> >> It's not rocket science ! (Although it seems that a handful
> of mal >> contents
> >> would like to confuse the issues.)
> > >
> >> We have NO intention of selling VO as a separate product
> any longer.
> > >
> >> Vulcan.NET is the future of Visual Objects. The majority of
> our >> Development
> >> Resources will go into producing new versions of Vulcan.NET
> (a VO language >> for .NET, the future of Development, NOT a
> 32bit Windows compiler. (VO)
> > >
> >> The subscription model(VOPS/VNPS) for 995.00 per user, give
> us a much >> clearer idea of what we have to spend on
> development in any given year. It >> has worked for us for
> over 5 years now, and has 100's of members. >> While its not
> for everyone, it works for the current subscribers and GrafX
> >> . >> It's your choice to subscribe or not subscribe.
> > >
> >> To order,
> > >
> >> http://www.grafxsoft.com/2vosubscribe.htm
> > >
> >> Brian
> > >
> > >

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 13:54:51 -0800 (PST), Nick Friend
<nicktekhne@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hello Nick,
>
>Why on earth would you even want an SP4 for VO? Nobody can seriously
>be starting new products in VO, and if you're just maintaining
>existing apps, then by definition VO must already be working more or
>less ok for you as it is.
>
Almost every new applications we write relies on 15 years of VO code.
So yes, we start new products in VO too. Last year we've moved to ADS.
Even for a products which is very compatible with normal DBFCDX we had
to spend a lot of time rewriting things. Even when I trust Vulcan to
be maintained better than VO now, it will take year(s) to go to Vulcan
for us.

So in the meantime I would be willing to spend money to work in VO
more comfortable. And unfortunately, VOPS did not prove to be the way
to achieve that.

Dick

Andrea,

> Nobody can seriously
> be starting new products in VO,
>
> well, in that case, nobody can seriously be starting new
> products in Vulcan.NET...

that's not true. I transported all my base libraries and of course started
new projects based on this. The base libraries, with no GUI in it, were
transported within a few hours. So why spent weeks or months on new
development in a new language? No reason for that.

Frank

"Frank Maraite" <fmy@maraite.com> wrote:

> that's not true. I transported all my base libraries and of course started
> new projects based on this. The base libraries, with no GUI in it, were
> transported within a few hours. So why spent weeks or months on new
> development in a new language?

Frank,
I have no doubt that it's true, but
I'm just talking from a strategic point of view.
At least on long term, MS provides
more cost effective solutions.

Regards,
--
Andrea

Nick,

This is one of the most sensible posts I've read on the topic. (I also give
Barbara credit for wise comments.)

Ginny

"Nick Friend" wrote in message
news:495c3db8-b7c7-4bbd-b442-0170204a4e5c@u12g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...

Yawn....

What is the matter with everyone. If you don't like it, don't buy it,
don't use it. If you don't want to move over to Vulcan, don't, go to
C# or whatever.

Why on earth would you even want an SP4 for VO? Nobody can seriously
be starting new products in VO, and if you're just maintaining
existing apps, then by definition VO must already be working more or
less ok for you as it is.

Nick

Nick,

I agree completely!

Regards,
Willie

Andrea,

I am doing active work in Vulcan.net. I also do work in vb.net, c#, and
asp.net

I believe in using the right tool for the right project. Sometimes it's
Vulcan, sometimes it's not. But I can say one thing for certain. I am NOT
doing any NEW work in VO.

I maintain my libraries that people use and need support on
(rightSLE,gridpro,AWT). I will continue to use VO to support the VO version
of these libraries. I will make sure that all my my libraries work properly
with sp4 is released.

Regards,
Willie

"Willie Moore" <williem@wmconsulting.com>:

> I believe in using the right tool for the right project. Sometimes it's
> Vulcan, sometimes it's not. But I can say one thing for certain. I am NOT
> doing any NEW work in VO.

Willie,

I completely agree with you.
but I think the point is another one.
Brian has triumphantly announced the
availability of a new SP for VO,
that will be released to VOPS subscribers only
for 900 dollars.
Now, what does that have to do with "VO is old stuff"
or "Vulcan is the newest release of VO" ?
This is only smoke and mirrors.

Regards,
--
Andrea

Geoff,

Just to set the record straight. I was a member of empower. The price was
495usd each year I was a member. I was in it for 2 years. It is now closed.
It was replaced by the MAPS subscription. The MAPS subscription is 429usd as
of today. It requires that you take an online assessment once every two
years. If you drop out of the program, you are required by the license
agreement to remove the software from your network. If you have a MAPS
subscription, you cannot use the servers (SQL, Server 2008) to run or host
any production sites. It is only for internal use.

If you want something that you can use for production use, webspark is a
good program. It costs nothing upfront and a 100usd fee when you exit the
program. The requirement for that program is that you develop and validate
one web site within the first 6 months.

As for developers not removing the software after they exit a program that
requires it. That is for them. I follow the software licenses to the best of
my ability.

Regards,
Willie

Nick,

>> Why on earth would you even want an SP4 for VO? <<

Let me say: "Why on earth would Grafx even want to develop SP4 for VO? "

It seems that Grafx thinks otherwise!

Besides, I think you are missing the point. Many developers still maintain
code in VO and add features to their apps if customer demand them.
Grafx is asking developers to shed unreasonable amount of money to join VOPS
for an SP and there are no details , just a promise.
I and several other developers on this forum asked Grafx to list what will
be fixed, etc. What is hard about that?

Jamal

"Nick Friend" wrote in message
news:495c3db8-b7c7-4bbd-b442-0170204a4e5c@u12g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...

Yawn....

What is the matter with everyone. If you don't like it, don't buy it,
don't use it. If you don't want to move over to Vulcan, don't, go to
C# or whatever.

Why on earth would you even want an SP4 for VO? Nobody can seriously
be starting new products in VO, and if you're just maintaining
existing apps, then by definition VO must already be working more or
less ok for you as it is.

Nick

On 22 feb, 10:53, "Willie Moore" <will...@wmconsulting.com> wrote:
> Nick,
>
> I agree completely!
>
> Regards,
> Willie

I think you do not understand the problem
SP3 has errors and the VO users hope
they are fixed in a eventual SP4
Thats the major problem

VO programmers know VO is dead
( prematurely , by a negligent policy )
and they are moving
to , especially, C#

Jorge