ANN: Facelift Professional for VO - v1.04

Ginny,

> Sounds good. Does it do WPF as well?

Yes, Facelift can output a WPF solution too.

I have just sent you the WPF solution built from your window.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.vulcanmindmeld.net

Ginny,

Outliers? <g>
If you criticize Grafx or Vulcan you are more treated as outcast....

One of the ideas behind .NET was to create a platform independed framework.
In short: the app is the same and every OS has or should has its own
runtime. Of course that runtime pInvokes on the platform API of the OS.
At least this is/was the idea.
Where the Vulcan compiler might be able to compile a exe that runs on
different platforms, Vulcan is more than just the compiler. Vulcan with its
own runtime and classlibs full of pInvokes does not comply to the .NET
architecture and now we know it will never.

Erik


> I did read your reply, and I think most people using Vulcan don't care
> about all the PInvokes under the covers. The Vulcan runtime has them as
> well. (And so does the .NET runtime, at least for now.) I'm pretty sure
> Brian and team considered the scenarios that most people want very
> carefully before committing to all the work they've done. Face it, you and
> I are outliers.

Paul,

Sweet! I think that's the way to go - straight from VO forms to WPF. I'll be
sending in my order.

--

Ginny Caughey
www.wasteworks.com

Erik,

I honestly think platform independence becomes less and less important as
long as you can interact with other platforms using web services. There
might be other reasons why somebody would choose or not choose Vulcan. I
happen to like working in C#. Others feel the same way about VO/Vulcan. I
think it's ok to just leave it at that.

--

Ginny Caughey
www.wasteworks.com

Ginny,

With all respect to what you think, platform independence is a goal of .NET
and the recent development shows it is obvious not a goal of the Vulcan
Development. Vulcan is and will stay a Win32 depended language.
Everybody can judge for herself/himself the level of importance of this.

Erik


"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> schreef in bericht
news:4c651e74$0$10329$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Erik,
>
> I honestly think platform independence becomes less and less important as
> long as you can interact with other platforms using web services. There
> might be other reasons why somebody would choose or not choose Vulcan. I
> happen to like working in C#. Others feel the same way about VO/Vulcan. I
> think it's ok to just leave it at that.
>
> --
>
> Ginny Caughey
> www.wasteworks.com
>
>
>
>

Ginny,

> Sweet! I think that's the way to go - straight from VO forms to WPF. I'll
> be sending in my order.

Thanks, it's good to know you'll find it useful.

Paul
http://www.vulcanmindmeld.net

Erik,

Whether Vulcan is win32 dependant depends on how you program. If you use the
VO Compatible classes then yes. But you can say the same thing about VB.Net.
If you only use the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility classes/functions
then you are just as dependant. If you stick to the framework classes, then
you have portable code and it doesn't matter which compiler you use. It all
comes down to preferences at that point. My personal opinion is that once
you have your program transported to dotNet, then you should move as quickly
as possible to the dotNet framework classes. The fastest way to accomplish
that is to transport your main logic and then use something like facelift to
do the heavy lifting on the GUI. As I recall, there was a large number of
competing 3rd party products to do the same thing for vb6 folks. I believe
there are also products to do the same thing for Winforms to WPF. If you
notice, Microsoft is staying out of that area so the 3rd party will stay
interested in producing programmers tools. I like that!

Regards,
Willie

"E®!k \/!$$E®" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8ckqvqFukvU1@mid.individual.net...
> Ginny,
>
> With all respect to what you think, platform independence is a goal of
> .NET and the recent development shows it is obvious not a goal of the
> Vulcan Development. Vulcan is and will stay a Win32 depended language.
> Everybody can judge for herself/himself the level of importance of this.
>
> Erik
>
>
> "Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> schreef in bericht
> news:4c651e74$0$10329$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> Erik,
>>
>> I honestly think platform independence becomes less and less important as
>> long as you can interact with other platforms using web services. There
>> might be other reasons why somebody would choose or not choose Vulcan. I
>> happen to like working in C#. Others feel the same way about VO/Vulcan. I
>> think it's ok to just leave it at that.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ginny Caughey
>> www.wasteworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 5364 (20100813) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5364 (20100813) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Erik,

So how many different platforms do you want to run on? I develop for
Windows, Windows Mobile/Windows CE, and Windows Phone. I use C# on all of
them, but I can rarely use the same code exactly. I can use many of the same
skills, but that's about it, and I don't see this changing any time soon.

--

Ginny Caughey
www.wasteworks.com

To prevent repeating myself , I am out of here (for the moment...)

Erik



"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> schreef in bericht
news:4c656952$0$1612$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Erik,
>
> So how many different platforms do you want to run on? I develop for
> Windows, Windows Mobile/Windows CE, and Windows Phone. I use C# on all of
> them, but I can rarely use the same code exactly. I can use many of the
> same skills, but that's about it, and I don't see this changing any time
> soon.
>
> --
>
> Ginny Caughey
> www.wasteworks.com
>
>
>
>

Paul,

This is something that should be provided free of charge with Vulcan.
Many of us already have window to form converters that we built from
your original transporters over two years ago. None of this saves the
really hard work of moving handlers across to Dot Net but binary
conversion should just be part of the product.

Geoff



"Paul Piko" <support@Re_move_vulcanmindmeld.net> wrote in message
news:i3sqfs$677$1@speranza.aioe.org:

> Facelift Professional for Visual Objects is a tool that reduces the amount
> of work involved in converting a VO application to use the .NET Framework.
> It reads VO window binary entities and reconstructs them as .NET versions,
> targeting either Windows Forms or Windows Presentation Foundation. The
> windows that are output can be opened in the Visual Studio forms designers.
> The source code it produces can be Vulcan.NET, C# or VB.NET.
>
> The latest update to Facelift Pro for VO includes the creation of event
> handlers for Pushbutton methods, ButtonClick methods and some other commonly
> used control events. These are in addition to the event handlers for windows
> that Facelift already produces.
>
> Download and install Facelift to review the documentation and see "before"
> and "after" samples. The "before" code is supplied as VO AEFs. The "after"
> code is a collection of Visual Studio solutions, demonstrating each of the
> combinations of output language and GUI:
>
> * Vulcan.NET Window Forms
> * Vulcan.NET WPF
> * C# Windows Forms
> * C# WPF
> * VB.NET Windows Forms
> * VB.NET WPF
>
> For more information, including a video introduction, go to
> http://www.vulcanmindmeld.net/facelift.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Special price until the end of August 2010: Receive a 60 euro discount by
> using the coupon code FPROVO-INTRO.
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> Regards,
> Paul Piko
>
> Vulcan Mind Meld
> http://www.vulcanmindmeld.net

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:12:22 +1000, "Paul Piko"
<support@Re_move_vulcanmindmeld.net> wrote:

Hello Paul,

>Facelift takes windows designed in VO and gives you the equivalent using the
>native .NET classes: System.Windows.Forms or XAML for WPF. So if you want to
>change your GUI from VO to the newer Windows Forms or WPF you can use
>Facelift. There are features available in the newer GUIs that make them
>attractive to many people.


Thanks for the explanation. I am not working in .Net. I've briefly
experimented with Vulcan last year, found too much that didn't work so
I was not convinced that I should continue with it, and I haven't
really reconsidered since.

Hence I don't know what features are available in the newer GUIs as
you wrote. Could you perhaps give a few examples?

Dick van Kooten

Hi E®!k,
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010, at 16:28:39 [GMT +0200] (which was 16:28 where I live)
you wrote about: 'ANN: Facelift Professional for VO - v1.04'

> For the first time since a long time I do agree with you.
> This products shows a way to a _real_ port from VO towards .NET, without the
> use of thousands pinvokes in the Vulcan system classes.

And what do you think the Winform classes use to display their windows ?

The code below is from NativeWindow.CreateHandle():

zero = UnsafeNativeMethods.CreateWindowEx(cp.ExStyle, class2.windowClassName, cp.Caption, cp.Style, cp.X, cp.Y, cp.Width, cp.Height, new HandleRef(cp, cp.Parent), NativeMethods.NullHandleRef, new HandleRef(null, moduleHandle), cp.Param);
error = Marshal.GetLastWin32Error();

Look at CreateWindowEx:

public static IntPtr CreateWindowEx(int dwExStyle, string lpszClassName, string lpszWindowName, int style, int x, int y, int width, int height, HandleRef hWndParent, HandleRef hMenu, HandleRef hInst, [MarshalAs(UnmanagedType.AsAny)] object pvParam)
{
return IntCreateWindowEx(dwExStyle, lpszClassName, lpszWindowName, style, x, y, width, height, hWndParent, hMenu, hInst, pvParam);
}

And at IntCreateWindowEx

[DllImport("user32.dll", EntryPoint="CreateWindowEx", CharSet=CharSet.Auto, SetLastError=true)]
public static extern IntPtr IntCreateWindowEx(int dwExStyle, string lpszClassName, string lpszWindowName, int style, int x, int y, int width, int height, HandleRef hWndParent, HandleRef hMenu, HandleRef hInst, [MarshalAs(UnmanagedType.AsAny)] object pvParam);

This looks a lot like pinvoke to me.
There is nothing wrong with calling pinvoke !

Once more you prove that you do not know what you are talking about.

--
Robert van der Hulst
AKA Mr. Data
VO & Vulcan.NET Development Team
www.heliks.nl

Hey smart-ass!

You better read the discussion before you post a comment like this.

Of course the .NET runtime for Win32 uses pInvokes on the Win32 API.
That makes that runtime/framework bound to that specific OS, like other
runtimes (Mono, Compact Framework) are bound to their specific platform.

The problem is that Vulcan uses an extra runtime for VO compatibility and
due to its pInvokes to the OS-API, it bound to Win32 only.

Sorry to say I thought you would be a little more clever.

Erik




"Robert van der Hulst" <E-55525A53-3887-E@heliks.nl> schreef in bericht
news:1328841235.20100816130837@heliks.nl...
> Hi E®!k,
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010, at 16:28:39 [GMT +0200] (which was 16:28 where I
> live)
> you wrote about: 'ANN: Facelift Professional for VO - v1.04'
>
>> For the first time since a long time I do agree with you.
>> This products shows a way to a _real_ port from VO towards .NET, without
>> the
>> use of thousands pinvokes in the Vulcan system classes.
>
> And what do you think the Winform classes use to display their windows ?
>
> The code below is from NativeWindow.CreateHandle():
>
> zero = UnsafeNativeMethods.CreateWindowEx(cp.ExStyle,
> class2.windowClassName, cp.Caption, cp.Style, cp.X, cp.Y, cp.Width,
> cp.Height, new HandleRef(cp, cp.Parent), NativeMethods.NullHandleRef, new
> HandleRef(null, moduleHandle), cp.Param);
> error = Marshal.GetLastWin32Error();
>
> Look at CreateWindowEx:
>
> public static IntPtr CreateWindowEx(int dwExStyle, string lpszClassName,
> string lpszWindowName, int style, int x, int y, int width, int height,
> HandleRef hWndParent, HandleRef hMenu, HandleRef hInst,
> [MarshalAs(UnmanagedType.AsAny)] object pvParam)
> {
> return IntCreateWindowEx(dwExStyle, lpszClassName, lpszWindowName,
> style, x, y, width, height, hWndParent, hMenu, hInst, pvParam);
> }
>
> And at IntCreateWindowEx
>
> [DllImport("user32.dll", EntryPoint="CreateWindowEx",
> CharSet=CharSet.Auto, SetLastError=true)]
> public static extern IntPtr IntCreateWindowEx(int dwExStyle, string
> lpszClassName, string lpszWindowName, int style, int x, int y, int width,
> int height, HandleRef hWndParent, HandleRef hMenu, HandleRef hInst,
> [MarshalAs(UnmanagedType.AsAny)] object pvParam);
>
> This looks a lot like pinvoke to me.
> There is nothing wrong with calling pinvoke !
>
> Once more you prove that you do not know what you are talking about.
>
> --
> Robert van der Hulst
> AKA Mr. Data
> VO & Vulcan.NET Development Team
> www.heliks.nl
>

Erik,

There's still lots of Win32 code inside Microsoft products. When they get
rid of all of theirs on 64-bit systems, then we can start to complain to
Grafx about theirs. ;-)

--

Ginny Caughey
www.wasteworks.com

Ginny,

To me it is still a good idea to focus on less platform depency, and this is
the idea behind .NET also.
Facelift follows this idea and Grafx does not.

Erik







"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> schreef in bericht
news:4c694d68$0$9838$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Erik,
>
> There's still lots of Win32 code inside Microsoft products. When they get
> rid of all of theirs on 64-bit systems, then we can start to complain to
> Grafx about theirs. ;-)
>
> --
>
> Ginny Caughey
> www.wasteworks.com
>
>
>
>